The Agent Podcast - EP 75 - Barry Karch
[00:00:00] Barry Karch: So I decided I'm gonna be myself. I'm just gonna be a regular guy. I'm gonna be out there trying to help people. I'm not gonna try to be a quote salesperson. I'm just gonna try to assist them and help. 'em help. 'em achieve their goals, do the best I can and be friendly. And it worked. I found that people liked working with me.
[00:00:28] Ray Sjolseth: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the agent podcast today. I'm here with my friend Barry. Barry, welcome to the show.
[00:00:34] Barry Karch: Hey Raymond. Thanks for having me here. I'm looking forward to looking forward to being here.
[00:00:38] Ray Sjolseth: Yeah, I'm glad you're here, Barry. So, Barry, it is not your first day in real estate, but I always ask why real estate let's start at the beginning.
[00:00:46] Barry Karch: Okay. Well, that's a good question. And I'm gonna kind of give you an unusual answer. It wasn't by choice. I never set out to be a realtor. I never expected to be a realtor when I was back in college.
[00:00:58] Barry Karch: I was very good at numbers and very detail oriented. So I probably would've made a good engineer or a good accountant, but I was directionless. I was a good student. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I really did not know where I wanted to go. I didn't have a strong desire to do anything. I wish it was differently when I was young, but I was just kind of cruising along without really giving much thought to the future.
[00:01:23] Barry Karch: And I graduated college and my parents were realtors. They owned a real estate company. They were doing well. And I didn't know what else to do. So I thought, I guess that sounds like a good opportunity. I'll try real estate. I'll go into it. So it was just, I am kind of an accidental realtor, I guess it wasn't by choice, really.
[00:01:46] Ray Sjolseth: Okay. So, tell us about your first year as a real estate agent in the, you know, quote unquote family business.
[00:01:52] Barry Karch: It had its pros and cons. I mean, it was good because my father was one of the top realtors in the city. So, he gave me a lot of guidance on how to do things and to help me get started. He had a lot.
[00:02:07] Barry Karch: People that had contacted him about buying homes and he didn't have time to follow up with them. So he just gave me a stack of kind of cold leads to follow up with. So that helped me get off to a, a good start. And I managed to convert some sales from that. But the flip side of it was he and I were very, very different types of people.
[00:02:27] Barry Karch: He was very domineering, aggressive, people were scared of him. He was intimidating and I'm just the. I'm soft spoken. I'm quiet. I'm more empathetic towards other people. So we had different strengths, but he would tell me how to do things and it would not fit my personality at all. So I would kind of have to learn how to do things my own way, over time it evolved and it worked
[00:02:53] Ray Sjolseth: so that's always an interesting dynamic, right? Where you have somebody who could be dominant or overbearing or aggressive. And you're there looking at what you deem as a successful roadmap only to try to figure out, like, what does your actual roadmap look like? So what are some of the things that you pulled away from your father to help you create your roadmap?
[00:03:20] Ray Sjolseth: And then to follow that up? What are some of the things that. You stayed away from, in efforts to be your most authentic self and serve your clients?
[00:03:29] Barry Karch: Yeah. Good question. Because I did learn both. I learned a lot of things to do and things not to do. Okay. And I guess you learned that from most anybody that is a mentor for you, but from him I learned number one to be proud of being in a sales profession, he was always saying how salespeople make the most money of anybody and, and do better.
[00:03:48] Barry Karch: And it's a great profession and he's always stressing to Stress your differences. What makes you different from other people? So when you go on a listing appointment, stress your differences. He was always talking about that, and he had a very strong work ethic. He would work day night, 24/7.
[00:04:05] Barry Karch: Basically. He never took a day off real estate was his hobby. He just, his job is hobby. It was all he did. He didn't care about anything. So I learned a strong work ethic from him. I learned to be proud of selling to try to be different, to promote my differences. So those were the, some of the pluses I learned from him on the flip side, I learned he was a little abrasive and not a people person.
[00:04:32] Barry Karch: People sometimes would go talk to him in his office and come out crying literally. And so I had to learn how to not do that. And one time I had, I remember I had a buyer I was showing homes to for a while. He didn't buy anything. And my father said, just tell him to get lost. You know, and so I, I being new and, and.
[00:04:51] Barry Karch: Green in the business at that time, I basically told the guy, I, I can't, I can't work with you anymore. Sorry. See you later. [00:05:00] And the guy was upset with me and I still remember that 30, some odd years later that you know, just this didn't feel right to me. So I, I learned I learned the work ethic and, and how to sell real estate, but also the opposite.
[00:05:13] Barry Karch: I learned how to try to create more empathy with, with clients than he did. So
[00:05:18] Ray Sjolseth: what do you think. Over the last 30 plus years of your real estate career. How do you think that's translated into your relationship building with your clients?
[00:05:29] Barry Karch: Well, I think that's been a key to it. I decided I was gonna just be myself.
[00:05:34] Barry Karch: I wasn't gonna try to be like him, my father or any other trainer. There were other trainers at the time and they all had these set scripts. Here's what you say. In this situation and if the buyer objects with this, here's how you come back at it. But it was so unnatural to me. I decided these were things that just sound a phony coming outta my mouth.
[00:05:54] Barry Karch: So I decided I'm gonna be myself. I'm just gonna be a regular guy. I'm gonna be out there trying to help people. I'm not gonna try to [00:06:00] be a quote salesperson. I'm just gonna try to assist them and help. 'em help. 'em achieve their goals, do the best I can and be friendly. And it worked. I found that people liked working with me.
[00:06:10] Barry Karch: They felt comfortable. Because I was not pushy. I think a lot of times when people start working with a salesperson, like maybe when you walk into, I hate using this analogy, but when you walk into a car lot, you might kind of be a little bit on guard, because you're afraid of pushy. Salesperson's going to jump all over you and.
[00:06:27] Barry Karch: Trying to talk you into something. I think people sometimes are a little on guard when they first talk to a realtor and after they hung around me, they could relax because I'm not like that. I just talk to them like a regular friendly person, like a friend of theirs and try to help 'em and I don't have any other agenda.
[00:06:43] Barry Karch: I'm not pushy. So they did relax. They opened up, they tell me more about what they like, what they want, what they don't like. They're not afraid to tell me how they feel. Houses and we just create great re working relationships and long term relationships. I've had clients come back [00:07:00] after 10, 20, 30 years to list houses still that they bought a long time ago.
[00:07:05] Barry Karch: So it's, it's been great in building relationships with clients.
[00:07:09] Ray Sjolseth: Agree with you because I think a lot of people, when they think of real estate agents or realtors, or, you know, realtors or real estate brokers, Uhhuh . They think that they're transactional people and right. One of the things that I've seen happen, and I really feel like it's been over the last five years since digital marketing has spiked, you know, and everyone's getting hit with ads and lead gen and lead magnets and funnels and all of these different things that the winners have come out to be the people that are very authentic.
[00:07:45] Ray Sjolseth: and very much themselves. And by means of technology, it's kind of helped weed out a lot of BS for lack of a better term. What are your thoughts on that coming from where you came from, where, like you said, you had an MLS book, right? You didn't have a digital MLS [00:08:00] to go to and sign in or grab an app or send somebody automated CMA.
[00:08:04] Ray Sjolseth: Like these things didn't exist. So as the technology trend has matured. What do you think has happened with agents out there in the field?
[00:08:12] Barry Karch: Well, the business I'm gonna, I hate to sound like an old timer, the business I'm gonna sound like some one's old grandpa. Now the business is so much easier nowadays.
[00:08:21] Barry Karch: I'm thinking of the story. When they, people used to tell you, I had to walk 10 miles of school up hill through snow. Right. But really it's so much easier now with the technology you can do, I can do things in minutes that used to. So long to do as you mentioned, we had the MLS books. Now you just search on the computer.
[00:08:38] Barry Karch: It's easy to find homes. We had to go through maps to locate where the homes are now there's GPS. I mean, I can go on and on, but really the biggest difference is not so much the technology I went to a seminar about 20 years ago now. Are you familiar with Brian Buffini? Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. I went to a Brian Buffini seminar.
[00:08:59] Barry Karch: I didn't know who he was at the time I was at actually I think it was at a national association of realtors, convention, and Brian Buffini was a speaker. So I went and heard him and he was talking about. Visiting pop popping by your past clients, visiting them in person dropping off a little gift. And I was, when I got back home, I was thinking, can I see myself doing that?
[00:09:19] Barry Karch: Do I have the nerve to show up at someone's doorstep with a gift? Cause I had never really thought upon past clients before. And I thought, yeah, I could do that. I can see myself doing this. So I started doing the pop buys and. Follow up calls and everything he talked about. And it really, my whole business changed from that point on, instead of being transactional, like you mentioned, just always looking for the next deal and the next person.
[00:09:43] Barry Karch: I became much more relational where I built up long term relationships, all my past clients, and I would stop by their house. Year after year after year, after year dropping off gifts. And one of my favorite ones to always drop off were girl scout cookies because everyone loves girl scout [00:10:00] cookies. And I tell you what, they only cost four bucks a box.
[00:10:03] Barry Karch: And I don't know any gift. You can give someone that costs four bucks that they love so much. So I always drop off girl scout cookies at their house. And after a while, they got to expect me every year with the cookies and we're so happy to see me and we catch up and talk about what happened and we just become.
[00:10:18] Barry Karch: Much, better friends and bond after the sale than during the sale. So I've had these long term relationships with people just from doing that. And that's led to most of my business in the, the recent years of my career as referral and from my past clients and repeat business just from starting with dropping off cookies.
[00:10:36] Ray Sjolseth: So you have a podcast and it's focused on introverted UN salesy. Not even tactics, but personalities. Where did that come from? I mean, I know it came, I know it came from you, but what made you decide that, Hey, the world needs more of this and I want to be the guy to deliver it.
[00:10:59] Barry Karch: Well, I am an introverted realtor.
[00:11:04] Barry Karch: I I've, it doesn't mean that I don't like talking to people and don't have friends. Some people misinterpret what an introvert is. It just means that we like some alone time also to I guess recharge rather than being in big groups all the time. But that being said, I found that being an introvert has many advantages.
[00:11:23] Barry Karch: It was actually a plus rather than an obstacle in real estate. I thought it turned out to be a really good thing. That's led to whatever success I've had. And in looking around, I noticed that a lot of the top realtors are introverts. They're not people you would expect. I remember talking to my accountant one day and he was doing.
[00:11:42] Barry Karch: Accounting work for another realtor. And she was very vivacious, bubbly, outgoing personality. You think she'd be great at real estate, but she only sold a fraction of the homes I did. I'm not saying I'm so great. It's just that the best realtors are often not the ones you would expect. Sometimes the real the real good talkers and the people great at networking.
[00:12:02] Barry Karch: Aren't the ones that do the majority of the, selling. So I created the podcast to encourage people. If you're an introvert or someone who doesn't necessarily fit the mold, whatever that is for being a realtor, you can do it and be successful. You don't have to try to be like some other person or put on another persona.
[00:12:20] Barry Karch: You can be yourself. There's a lot of different paths to the top of the mountain and you can be successful. So that's where it all came from.
[00:12:26] Ray Sjolseth: I love it.
[00:12:28] Ray Sjolseth: What does the roadmap look like to help somebody move from transactional to relational? Right. A lot of people I feel get into this business because maybe they're backed in a corner or they think it's gonna be easy to make money and oh, if he can do it or she can do it or they can do it, then I can do it too.
[00:12:50] Ray Sjolseth: But they do focus on transactions. They don't understand that real estate is very much a people and a partner business. And it's also very much a long term game. It doesn't mean you can't go out and sell 5,000 homes your first year with the right roadmap, strategies, tactics, support system, people, yada, yada, yada.
[00:13:09] Ray Sjolseth: But, I see a lot of people suffer from understanding how to move towards the relational side. In your opinion, in your experience, what does that roadmap look like? Right. Like you went to a seminar and you learned some new tactics and you started employing those tactics and that worked for. to start building the relations and the relationships and befriending.
[00:13:33] Ray Sjolseth: These people that you were helping get into a home, or, you know, get out of a home, whatever the situation was. Can you share some points for somebody that may be struggling with that so that they're focused on the relationship side of it?
[00:13:46] Barry Karch: Absolutely sure. I can kind of lead lead your listeners through my process of what I did.
[00:13:51] Barry Karch: You have to, first of all, create a database. Database is your business. Your database is your list of your past clients. If you don't have a database, you have no business, you have no future. So create a, get some type of CRM and create a database that has all your past clients in it. And if you haven't done it yet, Go back and review all your past closings and find the contact information from all your past clients to enter 'em in there and then enter everybody in there going forward.
[00:14:19] Barry Karch: So that's number one. You've gotta keep track of who you've worked with. And number two, now that you've know who you've worked with, you've gotta start contacting them. And at first it seem a little scary, particularly if you haven't talked to 'em in 3, 5, 10 years, you might feel a little weird going back all of a sudden.
[00:14:39] Barry Karch: Calling this person up or stopping over there, if you haven't even been in their life for 10 years, all I can say is just do it. Like, I guess like Nike says, just do it. And it's not that scary. Especially if you go bearing a gift, go over to their house, say, you know, I've really enjoyed working with you.
[00:14:57] Barry Karch: I'm sorry. I haven't been in touch in a while. I want you to [00:15:00] know I'm here for you. Should you need anything in the future? And here's a little gift for you, and then they'll just start a little conversation. And before you go, always ask them, do you know anybody else looking to buy or sell a home? And then once you do it the first time, then it gets much easier.
[00:15:16] Barry Karch: Always follow it up with a handwritten personal note, because I don't know about you, Raymond. In my mail, I just get bills and junk. Yep. If you ever get something handwritten, you're gonna open that up first. Yep. And so follow up a little personal note again, just to make yourself stand out from the crowd, cuz nobody does that.
[00:15:35] Barry Karch: And from time to time, you can give 'em a little phone call, just say, Hey, just thinking about you wanting to see how you're doing and that makes 'em feel special. It's not like you're bugging 'em, you're making them feel special that you felt enough thought enough of them. Take the time to call 'em. I mean, I love it when people follow up with me out, because then I know that I meant something to them.
[00:15:55] Barry Karch: So just give 'em a call every now and then, and once you do it, it's really not scary. Just continue the process, continue dropping off gifts. And before you know it, every time conclude your, your gift you're popping by, or your call. Do you know, anybody else looking to buy or sell a home?
[00:16:11] Barry Karch: Don't ask them for themselves directly. You don't say, when are you gonna buy or sell again? Do you know anybody else? Who's looking to buy ourselves less threatening. And, but a lot of times you'll get surprises. They'll say, you know what we were thinking about selling this summer, and you're gonna find out something you didn't even know about before it happens all the time.
[00:16:26] Barry Karch: So just ask 'em for that. And then your business is gonna just grow rather than just having to always hunt down the next buyer or the next seller. You're gonna have people coming back to you all the time and referring people to. It's so much easier and it's so much more fun to work with people that already know like, and trust you rather than having to win over people who don't even know you at all from Joe blow and try to commission to work with you over another realtor.
[00:16:50] Barry Karch: So it's very simple. Get the database and start contacting them. That's all you have to do.
[00:16:55] Ray Sjolseth: So being in business 30 plus years, you spend a lot of [00:17:00] time with yourself. What are a couple of the things that you've learned about yourself over your 30 year career, that you've become very aware of, that you really use today in your real estate business.
[00:17:15] Barry Karch: Boy, you asked the tough questions don't you let me think.
[00:17:20] Barry Karch: What have they become aware? I've become aware that I'm very, I'm good at follow up. I, I will follow up and follow up and follow up with clients. I've learned that and not to be afraid to do that. And now I'm not talking about past clients in this instance, I'm talking about people who might have, you might have had contact with at one point, who are thinking about buying or thinking about selling, but I haven't done anything yet.
[00:17:42] Barry Karch: You have to not be afraid to continue to follow up. I I've learned the gold is in the follow up. You just go for the low hanging fruit in front of you. That's one thing, but you gotta keep following up with people and you might think, oh, I don't wanna bug 'em. But again, you trim the tree.
[00:17:57] Barry Karch: Yeah, exactly. It makes 'em feel important. First of all. And just an example of that one time I spoke, I was considering using a financial advisor and I had an interview with her. After the interview. I never heard back from her again. She never followed up and it made me think like, does she not wanna work with me?
[00:18:16] Barry Karch: Does she not like me or something wrong with me. So following up makes 'em feel important. Like you mean something to them and you're interested in helping them. You always do the follow up as a form of helping. You're not, you're seeing what you can do to help 'em but I I'm good at following up.
[00:18:30] Ray Sjolseth: Can we talk about that for a minute?
[00:18:31] Barry Karch: Yes. So a lot of people would argue that they're pestering. The person or they're bothering the person or they don't wanna annoy somebody. How do you push through that?
[00:18:41] Barry Karch: Because I just look at it as if I'm just trying to help. 'em when I call 'em, I'll just say, just wanted to check in and see if there's anything I can do to help you.
[00:18:50] Barry Karch: That's really unthreatening low key, right? I'm not trying to say so when are you gonna buy a home? Are you ready to buy you ready to sell? That's not what I'm doing. Just check in to see if anything I can do to help. That's it. That's all I say. And most of the time you can't reach. When you phone, when you call somebody, right?
[00:19:05] Barry Karch: Most of the time people don't even answer the phone. Yeah. So I'll follow up with various methods. I'll do calls. I do texts. I'll do video texts. I'll do email. I'll try everything to see how you can reach 'em. But one weird thing I learned and I learned this from some training I took is I could follow up with people 10, 12 times, and yeah, you think you're bugging 'em, but, and you never reach 'em and you never hear back phone and.
[00:19:28] Barry Karch: The 13th time, all of a sudden they answer the phone and they, like, they never heard from you at all. like, they never got any other messages. They're like, oh, I'm so glad you called. Yeah, we are ready to sell, but they, they never heard from you at all before. So don't be afraid, I guess is what I'm gonna say.
[00:19:44] Barry Karch: I was just say, so you asked the things I learned about myself. I'm pretty good at following up. And I think that's where a lot of the a lot of the business.
[00:19:52] Ray Sjolseth: What what has been your biggest challenge over the last 30 years as a real estate agent, going through a bunch of different markets?
[00:20:02] Ray Sjolseth: A lot of technology changes a lot of government and regulation changes. Like what are some of the things that come to mind and talk about, Hey, I've overcome some obstacles and this is what they look like, personal or professional, whatever you wanna share.
[00:20:17] Barry Karch: Yeah. Let me think, you know, professionally really, to be honest with you, everything has gone quite well.
[00:20:23] Barry Karch: That's awesome. For my 35 years. Yeah. We've had some tougher times, like in 2008 financial crisis, but where I was working in El PA. The market didn't take the big dip. Other, other cities did, right. It still kept plugging along. And then at the time Obama was president and he came out with this credit where people got, I believe it was $8,000 cash back.
[00:20:49] Barry Karch: If they bought a house during that time. So I marketed that I advertise, you know, get $8,000 back and. 2008 was a good year for me. I really I can't think of really any time I've had a bad time with it. You always, the key is to always continue to evolve and try different things. You can't just stick with one thing because the world changes and what worked when I started the business 35 years ago, doesn't.
[00:21:16] Barry Karch: As well now, so I've always evolved and I've always tried to have several methods of generating business. I don't wanna rely on one thing because things can happen. At one time in my career, I'd listed a few, some foreclosures, and those went away when the market got better, but I had other sources of business.
[00:21:33] Barry Karch: So I've continued to evolve. So what struggles have been more, I guess, within than, than outside really?
[00:21:42] Ray Sjolseth: It's usually the case.
[00:21:43] Barry Karch: yeah. It's just learning how to do it. And the hardest things for me are sometimes accepting defeat. I don't do that very well because no matter how many listing appointments you go on, you're not gonna get 'em all.
[00:21:56] Barry Karch: I mean, I wish I got 'em all, but sometimes people are gonna choose the list of somebody else. Sometimes people are gonna choose to buy a home with somebody else. You have to you have to roll with the punches and that's, that's the hard thing. It's not always so easy. You can get very frustrated, but I've learned that usually when bad things happen like that, I'll just come back at it harder.
[00:22:13] Barry Karch: It just kind of motivates me. Okay. I'm gonna work harder next time and put more effort into it and do better and try to figure out what I could have done better for that person.
[00:22:21] Ray Sjolseth: Yeah. Push forward.
[00:22:23] Barry Karch: Yep. Has been a great career. All in all real estate has been a, a very good career, a lot of opportunity, and you can be creative and there's no limit on how you can do,
[00:22:33] Ray Sjolseth: what are some of the lead gen strategies that work really well for you right now?
[00:22:36] Ray Sjolseth: I assume you're a high referral base at this point in your career, but what are some of the other things that you do that maybe either outside the box or a little bit different than what everybody else is doing?
[00:22:47] Barry Karch: Yeah. Number one will be past clients and referrals. But, but you're right. I don't do just one thing.
[00:22:54] Barry Karch: I, I like to have other sources of business, so I've done many, many different things throughout my career. I've joined some real estate networks. For example, you're familiar with Dave Ramsey. Yep. I've I joined I was a Dave Ramsey, endorsed realtor, and I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed. The Dave Ramsey network.
[00:23:13] Barry Karch: I, I like what he stands for and I enjoyed the people that follow him. And I worked with, so I got a lot of good business from that. Yes, you have to pay a referral fee for that business, but there's no referral fee on the repeat and referral business from them. Sure. And I got so many people that will buy homes and then come back later and sell and, and so forth.
[00:23:34] Barry Karch: So it leads to a whole stream of. Business. So I like several real estate networks, like Dave Ramsey. Also, I've been a member of another one called home gain, which also refers buyers and sellers. So that's worked good. And then I've tried other various things. There's, there's I've done some mailers to there's a tech company that somehow with their algorithm determines who's likely to sell a house in the near future.
[00:23:58] Barry Karch: And so we do mailings to those people. Market to them. What else? I've done a little bit of for sale by owners in the past. I've done all kinds of things, but everything can work. Just depends on what suits your personality and what works best for you.
[00:24:12] Ray Sjolseth: It's good stuff. What are some things that you would pay forward to new real estate agents?
[00:24:16] Ray Sjolseth: Just getting out in the market today or maybe have a year or so under their belt, but not a whole lot of transactions closed. What are a few things that you'd like to share.
[00:24:26] Barry Karch: Okay. Good question. Cause there's so many things that I could have done better looking back that I wish I knew when I started number one, I guess, as we talked about earlier, create a database from the beginning.
[00:24:38] Ray Sjolseth: Yeah. Turn that CRM on
[00:24:40] Barry Karch: on yeah, get it, turn it on. Immediately. Turn on immediately and follow up every lead you have religiously, don't be afraid to. And Your number one, business is your number one job is prospecting, especially at the beginning. You have to bring in the business. You can't just sit around and wait for the phone to ring.
[00:24:58] Barry Karch: So you need to do something. That's going to bring you business. Join a real join one of these real estate networks. If you don't have a big, if you have a sphere of influence, go out and deliver them gifts, let 'em know, Hey, I'm now in real estate. You know, if you know anyone looking in the buy or sell, let me know and drop off some girl scout cookies, but if you don't have.
[00:25:16] Barry Karch: Join one of these real estate networks like home gain or Dave Ramsey or, or something to get some business. Also you can do open houses to put yourself in front of clients, whatever works for you. I'm not good at open houses myself, but some people are very good at it, but definitely always focus on making contacts and following up with them.
[00:25:36] Barry Karch: And always try to better educate yourself. When I started there weren't podcasts like yours. They give out so much good information that different realtors do and you can learn from everybody. So maybe someone you listen to is gonna have a great idea. You think? Yeah, I can do that. That works. And someone else, you listen to another, another episode of your show.
[00:25:56] Barry Karch: It's like, No, that's not me that I can't do that. That doesn't fit my personality. Just pick what works for you, but be open to new ideas and always looking, looking for them. So listen to podcasts, read real estate magazines, always get new ideas and try stuff, and don't be afraid to fail.
[00:26:12] Ray Sjolseth: I love that, especially that don't be afraid to fail.
[00:26:16] Barry Karch: Yep. That's how you learn all your best lessons.
[00:26:19] Ray Sjolseth: Yep. Hundred percent. Okay, Barry, where can people find you? Where can they find the podcast? Do you have a website? If somebody wants a home in El Paso?
[00:26:27] Barry Karch: Okay. Well, the podcast is called the real estate UN salesperson for the UN salesy people out there. So you can find that wherever you listen to podcast it's available and the websites, the real estate UN salesperson.com.
[00:26:42] Barry Karch: That's the podcast. That to be too confusing. Here, the, the real estate website for people looking to buy or sell a home is called the real estate powerhouses.com. So that's that. But those was the best places to find me.
[00:26:58] Ray Sjolseth: Barry. Thanks for your time today. This has been fun.
[00:27:00] Barry Karch: Thanks. I enjoyed it.
